Huey Johnson
on Green Planning

Huey D. Johnson	Sustainability is a key part of the overall mission of the Florida Design Initiative. To get a front-line look at what is happening in the global Sustainable Development movement e design Online went to the architect of Green Planning, Huey Johnson, President of Resource Renewal Institute (RRI), the California-based non-profit organization that has worked with a number of the most-advanced nations on Green Planning and has set a three-year goal of helping to start the Green Planning Process in at least 20 states. Johnson and RRI were recently commended by the President's Council on Sustainable Development, which has just given its final report to President Clinton.
	e design Online - We read the report of the President's Council on Sustainable Development. It looked like a very complete compilation of everyone's best ideas to date. We also looked at the reports on your Web Site about what has been done with green planning in New Zealand, the Netherlands, and Canada. Is Green Planning how we will achieve the Sustainable Development goals the Council just recommended to the President?
	JOHNSON - They're still two different subjects. Let me talk about Green Planning first.
. . . I used the term "Green Plan" as a generic term in my book (Green Plans) to point out the concept of integrated, semi-comprehensive management . . . Green Plans	The Green Plan concept is important because it's happening. Small countries with big environmental problems have used Green Plans to put the environmental dilemma behind them and deal realistically with their problems. They put their best minds to work, established a twenty-five year time frame, totally reversed their environmental decline, and established a sustainable base. They put billions of dollars on the program and defined what they wanted to do. They have goals and objectives. They're brutally honest. So that is what is actually, functionally happening. I probably tend to be overly-practical and I started looking around the nation and saw that was what the future was going to look like. Further, I had put in time in state government in California, on the governor's cabinet, I was responsible for environment. I realized that our problems were too often a matter of too narrow a focus. We would look at forestry intensely for a year, debate it and establish a policy. Then next year we would take on energy. The next year, water. And the thing was always unravelling. We weren't pushing the whole package ahead. That lead me to the conclusion that we had to manage things. And I found that the Dutch example and these other examples, New Zealand, Denmark and San Jose, California, among others, were doing very well in meeting environmental needs and so I used the term "Green Plan" as a generic term in my book (Green Plans) to point out the concept of integrated, semi-comprehensive management. And it is working. More and more people are looking at it and more and more people will. I think it will happen in the states first. But basically it argues that we know enough to solve the environmental problem. And we do it by managing our affairs, and so on, things I mentioned in the book.
	Then I go back to your first question about how the President's Council relates. The President's Council is a very important step. If you judge it just as a written report it's important enough all by itself. But it doesn't really bring out the remarkable accomplishments of The President's Council. And one of those is reflected in a story they told the day the President received their report.
President's Council on Sustainable Development	You know they almost disbanded. For a while they were acclaimed wherever they went. Then they came out here and all of us really unloaded on them, told them that with the Congress ready to throw out all of the environmental laws we have built up for a century, they were just floating around dilettante-like and putting up with the Gingrich crew and letting them go on. They took an honest look and agreed, said if that is, in fact, all we're doing we should disband. But at a breakfast meeting next day they turned it around and decided to stand firm and to do so as a group. And to everybody's astonishment they all talked about it and all the corporate leaders voted to ask Clinton to stand against the Gingrich attitude to wreck environmental quality legislation. After that they were able to communicate and to resolve problems and work on things. And while a lot of that is reflected in the report, the mere fact that they covered so much is remarkable. The report has a chapter on population, if you can imagine. I don't think the report is implementable in its present form, which is the kind of standard reporting form that Presidential commissions always come up with. But the statement in itself is historically important. It takes a huge step. Industry rises up and says, "Yes, the problems are real." That is clearly the beginning phase of what went on in these smaller countries.
. . . for the industrial leaders on this commission to say that subsidies should go is just flat-out phenomenal. It's the beginning of the end . . .	Just look at where they say we ought to get rid of subsidies -- that many subsidies skew the economics. That's the first time I've seen a government commission say that. Boy, that's important. That's what is responsible for about 90 percent of the conflicts and the opposition to environmental improvement in Congress. The oil interests who are subsidized. The grazing interests who are subsidized. The forestry interests who are subsidized. The mining interests who are subsidized. All spend their full time, their days, weeks, months, and years manipulating Congress. They represent about ten percent of the companies in the U.S. Ninety percent are out doing their jobs easily, cleanly, managing the environment and totally ignoring the chaos that's being created in the state and federal capitals by the ten percent that are on the subsidies. So for the industrial leaders on this commission to say that subsidies should go is just flat-out phenomenal. It's the beginning of the end, I think. And part of it is the beginning of the acknowledgement that we face a time of limits. India went through that concept several thousand years ago when they clear-cut all their forests. England went through it a couple of centuries ago. And now, we suddenly realize there are no more vast stands of uncut forests, or undrilled oil fields or untapped gold mines. So now we have to start managing our affairs. We can't just pay for it by letting stuff be taken off the public lands. We've got to start managing. We've got to be efficient. I think they have launched us in a very important direction.
	The fact that the President accepted it and said he was willing to support it further is very important. But the question remains. Right now I fear the current state of affairs. I attended a large conference in Washington where a scholar reported on the President's Council and said the report would be put on a shelf and gather dust, that the special interests would oppose it, would effectively get everybody blocked, and business would go on as usual. That was a cynical response by one of the guys who was hired by a huge industrial sector firm. I hope they're wrong. I think it's very important we try and get it implemented. It's an important document. But implementing it is going to take just as much work as it did to prepare it. And I would suggest that our Green Plan could be a framework for implementing a President's Council report. We could do it very easily and I have written a letter offering that.
	e design Online - But you think the states are where Green Planning is most likely to get the first start. Which states?
After defining sustainability in their own terms, Minnesota's seven sectors (agriculture, utilities, and so on) are sitting down together to put a state program together . . .	JOHNSON - Minnesota has been working for about three years on a concept that is not unlike the Dutch approach. They have divided their corporate sectors into six or seven segments -- agriculture, utilities, and so on. They all defined sustainability in their own terms and then it was all brought together in a big binder and they boiled out of that a succinct 20 page statement that is well-worth getting by any reader. Now the governor has formed a roundtable. All the seven sectors are sitting down together to take the next step to try and put a state program together. In New Jersey the Governor sent her planning staff to Holland and that became a big success. They came back enthusiastic and are giving speeches and talking about it and enacting a Green Plan for New Jersey. They have a working citizen's group of corporate leaders and others meeting and underway.
	Other states? Florida has had exciting, positive work done that could be quickly turned into a Green Plan. Oregon has some remarkable stuff. They have goals and objectives and indicators. The largest regional government in the United States is Portland Metro. There are 21 cities that are run under Metro. Environmental quality management and other themes are addressed. And they, too, are way out in front on most of these things. So most of the things that are going on in other countries are happening here as well in one place or another.
. . . you've got to manage the whole package . . . and that's what these little countries are doing. As a result, their economies are booming . . .	The big difference is that we still look at water, forestry and such separately, and try to manage them separately. The Dutch discovered that they could either manage them all at once or they would never make any headway. An example is energy policy. It's not just energy. It quickly becomes an air pollution problem. And sulphur emissions from energy plants cause acid rain which kills forests, so it's a forestry problem too. So you've got to manage the whole package. You can't just manage a part of it. And that's what these little countries are doing. As a result, their economies are booming. The public is behind green planning and supportive of the idea. This has become the politics of hope, and every school child in Holland understands they`re part of an effort to deliver a liveable future, as does every bank president.
. . . I would say New Jersey, Minnesota and Oregon are out in front . . .	So I would say New Jersey, Minnesota and Oregon are out in front. And I would say it's a flip of the coin to see who will be first with a comprehensive, integrated, systemic plan. But they're all looking at it, understand it, and seemed destined to make it happen, as I think all states will. As I think all industrialized nations will if we are to survive.
	e design Online - There is not a lot of promise in Congress, is there?
Mt. Cook, New Zealand. The Maori call it Aorangi -- Cloud in the Sky	JOHNSON - Well, change is happening. The huge, unpredictable part of this is the corporate world. Many corporations have moved out in front of government on environmental quality control. The multi-nationals see these things. It has occurred in Holland and New Zealand and Singapore and elsewhere. They understand their efficiencies are an advantage for them, so they're going ahead and doing it. They've moved out ahead of government and they will not retreat from that. One of the key reasons that Gingrich wasn't successful is that a lot of corporations said "No, no, no. We complain about regulations, we may want them modernized, but we don't want them thrown out." And every smart corporate leader can see that. You're better off dealing with what you can handle now because they know the American public demands environmental action, and they're not going to drop it because of the possible political fallout. So that's happening, and that's a huge factor that will keep Congress from doing much in the way of reversal. Most of the pressure on Congress to go into reverse is from the ten percent -- the subsidized industries -- that pay big political payments to both of the parties. There is an awakening going on in America. Corporations are an example. Young people are starting to wake up. I think the next big wave of passion will be on toxics. The new book Our Stolen Future discusses the effects of endocrine inhibitors that affect not only alligators but also human beings. They start not only cancer epidemics but affect the behavior of young children. A lot of young people are reading that. And they are mad. They are going after these toxics. That's another example of change. There will be a wave of that. And Congress won't be able to deal with the rebellious young.
	Strangely, world trade is having a positive effect. I know there's some difference of opinion on that. But I also know one company here that was all set to sell its clothes in Germany. A huge national company. Did all their money, did all their marketing, ordered all their cloth, and got a note from the German government just as they were ready to go, saying, "Sorry you can't sell those clothes in Germany. They're made with dyes that are illegal in Germany because they're so toxic." The board met and said, "What in the heck is going on?" And they voted on the spot to not let accountants set their policies any more; they would ever more have that company managed at the very highest environmental standards of any government in the world. So they wouldn't have that trouble again.
	e design Online - That's great.
. . . Republicans could easily become better environmentalists than the Democrats.	JOHNSON - I could go on a long time about the positive things that are happening to the attitudes of people. And I think they're right. Congressman Boehlert from New York, a Republican, first challenged Gingrich and soon had 48 more in support, and then 60, and really shut him down. They all said, "No, no, no. Teddy Roosevelt was an environmentalist. We're environmentalists. We don't buy your stuff any more." And so the battle isn't over. That's another huge indicator. I don't think Republicans have disappeared. They could easily become better environmentalists than the Democrats.
	e design Online - For a long time in Florida they were.
	JOHNSON - Is that right?
	e design Online - Yes. Nat Reed (prominent Florida environmentalist and Undersecretary of Interior in the Nixon administration) and all that crew. Claude Kirk (first Republican governor of Florida since Reconstruction) was probably the strongest early environmental governor we had -- for all of his zaniness. And it was only after the Republicans showed serious signs of taking over the Legislature that the "rape-and-scrape" money started flowing into the party and they began to change. As a final question I wanted to ask you about one of the goals of Green Planning, which is to encourage a less adversarial role for industry. I think that is really important. Americans are basically a cooperative people. But we find ourselves trapped in an increasingly adversarial society -- especially our legal system and our press. The image that the media gives us of ourselves is not real. How can we reach the basic cooperative nature of the American people? How do we deal with a negative, adversarial media, in particular.
	JOHNSON - An answer, I think, is information management. The tools that we have now, the Internet, all of a sudden there's a basis for a central information system where everybody -- whether it's a corporate decision maker, or a government manager, or a school child doing a term paper -- can go to that same source. They all can go to the same centralized information base. And when you can do that you can circumvent a lot of conflict.
	I think the sheer terror of the dimensions of the challenge gives us another push toward cooperation. That all of a sudden we realize that a cancer epidemic is very real. A lot of these American leaders started looking around and they realized they are being led around by the P.R. programs of the ten percent of industries that are subsidized. They realized they needed to get involved. And that also happened in some of the oil companies and others that you wouldn't expect to be out in front. They realized the problems are real. We've got to deal with them. We know how to manage them. We'll show government how to do it, and we'll get on with our affairs. Dutch bussiness got rid of conflict in another interesting way. They said, "Look, we know the problem is real, now. For thirty-five years we've opposed every program the government has proposed on environmental quality. We now reverse ourselves. And what we want to do is be given the freedom to be responsible. One thing we'd like is to modernize regulations. We don't want to throw them out, but they don't make any sense." Our biggest problem is that we still let the ten percent, the violators and the polluters, run our policies in this country. They browbeat the President, and they browbeat the Congressional districts, and they pour the money in and elect the right-wing that went in with that last surge in Congress. Gingrich's gang -- whatever he calls them. But I think that will change and a lot of those Yahoos will be out in the street.
	e design Online - What about you? What does your agenda look like for this year? What are you going to be focusing on?
Things are moving. It is very real.	JOHNSON - We're going to keep working on the states. We'll keep trying to expand our reach, to have regional offices in the key states so we can be out-of-government advocacy people, to be politically independent and help to sell corporate leaders, pit bulls, power houses -- whoever it is -- to build support for the effort that is going on in those states, or to help get it going in other cases. We'll continue to write and report. We hope to do a film this year on that historic transition point where a number of companies said, "Okay, the problem is real. Let's get on with it." 3M, in this case, and others. That's kind of what we do with our day. We've got a three-year plan that looks toward getting 20 states started with Green Plans. And we've called on twenty. We've been in the mid-west in recent months and it's starting to look very positive. A lot of us fly back and forth over the prairie states and never appreciate it. But they've been doing a lot of very sound work. Things are moving. It is very real.
	Jim Minter, Contributing Editor
	Links to other related sites: Green Planning in Canada For general information on Canada: http://www.csr.ists.ca/w3can/Welcome.html Green Planning in the Netherlands For general information on the Netherlands: http://www.eeb.ele.tue.nl/map/netherlands.html Green Planning in New Zealand For general information on New Zealand: http://www.w3.org/hypertext/DataSources/WWW/nz.html Green Planning in the United States of America For general information on the U.S.: http://www.vtourist.com/vt/usa.htm